Winches

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Bo
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Postby Bo » Thu May 30, 2013 7:48 pm

When I wired mine, I looked for low resistance 50mm2 battery cable and could not find any that claimed to outperform the quality welding cable I chose. The general consensus on the web appeared to be that area of most resistance would be the crimps and that the only way to fix that was by soldering which is something that will open up a whole new debate. Just for the record I'm in the crimp only camp. :wink:
5/4 of people admit that they’re bad with fractions.

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Jabba
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Postby Jabba » Thu May 30, 2013 8:11 pm

To upgrade the alternator, can I just add a second cable direct from the alternator to the battery in addition to the existing cable? Or do I need to run a single larger cable via the same routing as the existing cable?

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davew
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Postby davew » Thu May 30, 2013 8:29 pm

Phil&Lucie wrote:Dave,

I think you have possibly got your "Eddy Currents" mixed up with your "Back EMF".

Phil


That'll learn me for trying to simplify it :)

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davew
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Postby davew » Thu May 30, 2013 8:32 pm

Jabba wrote:To upgrade the alternator, can I just add a second cable direct from the alternator to the battery in addition to the existing cable? Or do I need to run a single larger cable via the same routing as the existing cable?


Yes, you can, the starter motor is wired straight to the battery already anyway they just wire the alternator to the starter motor to save valuable money that can then be used to install the correct number of water leaks in the body.

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davew
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Postby davew » Thu May 30, 2013 8:34 pm

Bo wrote:When I wired mine, I looked for low resistance 50mm2 battery cable and could not find any that claimed to outperform the quality welding cable I chose. The general consensus on the web appeared to be that area of most resistance would be the crimps and that the only way to fix that was by soldering which is something that will open up a whole new debate. Just for the record I'm in the crimp only camp. :wink:


Crimp then solder for me all the way...

kingsonlim
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Postby kingsonlim » Fri May 31, 2013 7:49 am

or fit a PTO winch......without the hassle of electric system upgrade...

have got a full set incl galv bumper, winch, shafts, bracket for running synthetic ropes etc etc .....pm me if interested

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Jabba
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Postby Jabba » Fri May 31, 2013 11:49 am

So, not wanting to open a new can of worms but what are the pros/cons regarding crimping, soldering or both?

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davew
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Postby davew » Fri May 31, 2013 4:03 pm

It is indeed a can of worms !

Soldering connectors in automotive uses is a bad idea because solder, being soft, can migrate/move about. When fresh it will give the best electrical connection but mechanically it's not ideal. It gives complete protection against corrosion at the joint because lead is, well, lead and that's why we have it on our church roofs if the pikeys haven't found it yet.

Crimping gives a really good mechanical connection (or should if done correctly) and initially gives a good electrical connection. A perfect crimp connection is also impervious to corrosion at the joint because there is simply nowhere for the water and oxygen to get into. In practice this isn't always the case because a "perfect" crimp is not easy to obtain even with hydraulic crimpers.

Crimping then soldering (my preferred method), to me, gives the best of both worlds. You crimp the joint first to give mechanical strength, then you solder the joint to give the best possible electrical joint and at the same time providing corrosion resistance as the solder both wicks into any space left in the crimp and forms an impervious seal around the joint.

Never ever solder then crimp a joint as that WILL give the worst possible joint !

Some people seem to think that soldering after crimping somehow takes away from the crimped joint instead of adding to it. I think, rightly or wrongly that at worst it achieves no benefit and at best it can improve the joint.

Over to Bo... :)

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Jabba
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Postby Jabba » Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:57 pm

Looking at modifying my bumper to take a winch (when I eventually manage to find one). It's made from box section. Can I just cut a slot through both sides for the rope and fit the winch behind (on a suitable plate) or do I need to cut out the back of the box so that the rope just passes through one layer of steel?

olzook
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Postby olzook » Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:44 pm

I bought a winch tray from Devon 4x4 and then welded it into the box section bumper I have, and then added some bracing back to the chassis. Feel free to come and have a look.

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Jabba
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Postby Jabba » Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:18 pm

I saw your bumper in the IOM. Looks good and the devon tray looked ace.

However... I'm being tight and trying to do this as cheaply as possible. Phil gave me a tray that I think I can use and I was initially intending on cutting out the back and top of the box and welding it in. That way I'd retain the extra strength of the box.

I'm now wondering if I need to cut the box at all and can just weld the tray either on to the back or wrap it underneath. I'm pretty sure there's room for the winch behind the box but wasn't sure if there was any constraint on the rope passing through it.

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varleym
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Postby varleym » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:43 am

Dave

You'll need a fairlead whatever you do and you'll have to cut a reasonable sized hole in the front of the box and an even bigger one at the back to allow the rope to coil round the drum without fouling on the bumper.

I'd certainly look at mounting the tray behind the bumper so that the winch is braced agaist it rather than just being welded on top, which might allow it to break off under high load.

Cheers

Mark

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Jabba
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Postby Jabba » Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:39 am

I wasn't thinking of mounting it on top of the bumper. It was always going behind. It just depended whether it was set through/into/behind the box section.
Oliver's is mounted through using a (very nice) Devon 4x4 tray. Looks like my question is irrelevant anyway as, having just measured and looked at the specs of the tds winch, it will need to be set through the bumper.
That then gives me a problem with the recovery loops I have welded into the bumper as one end of them passes inside of the chassis rail and I'll have to cut them out.
Bugger.

olzook
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Postby olzook » Fri Jun 28, 2013 5:13 pm

Dave have you talked to James about the price of a TDS, he is back from his holiday now. He has an account with David Bowyer and so depending on what he can get them for depends on what he can pass them on for but he is very competitive on price :)

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Jabba
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Postby Jabba » Fri Jun 28, 2013 7:49 pm

Got a price from him today. Not as cheap as 2nd hand but a bit lower than list. I need to work out exactly how much I can afford and how much its worrth buying new.

Cheers Dave


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