dum diff question

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nicks90
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Full Name: Nick Clayton

dum diff question

Postby nicks90 » Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:31 am

as my front diff has gone to landrover heaven and its rotting carcass is about to be ripped from the axle - i have sourced a replacement (cheers nick!).
its a 24 spline axle from the back of a disco with that stupid rubber doughnut end instead of the usual 4 bolt flange and UJ,
Just a very quick silly question about replacing the 3 bolt rubber wotsit with the 4 bolt flange,

I'm pretty certain its a straight swap - undo big stupidly tight nut and slide off the 3 bolter and slide on 4 bolter then redo the nut really tight again - or do i need spacers, a different seal, set end float blahblahblah?
Dont fancy pulling the front axle to bits and putting the replacement in for it to die straight away cos i put the drive flange on wrong.

cheers
Nick
Bugger!
Another bloody dent...

dave willard
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Re: dum diff question

Postby dave willard » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:59 am

HI
Remove the flanges from your both old diffs inc spacers & shims if any should be the same spacer

I would think that your old flange will be worn where the oil seal rubs on it especially as it has had a lot of abrasive mud etc over the last few years

I suggest if it is worn you buy a new flange as well as oil seal & nut, you will need to make sure that the input shaft has the correct end float, I found that the shaft was tight when replaced my flanges so had to remove/fit shims measuring end float or adjust on test until the shaft turns freely as in wheel bearings but more precisely The bearings are roller taper similar to wheel bearings


I have made a long steel bar that bolts onto the flange to prevent it turning when undoing the nut, it is easy to use in situ or removed, I made this because I found the nut came loose if not pulled up very tight (also used nut lock)

If you want to borrow the bar, it pop round I am not far from you I also have some shims from old diffs if needed, but from 2 diffs you should be ok I also have a dial test gauge should you need it

Dave Willard

nicks90
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Postby nicks90 » Sat Mar 14, 2009 8:53 pm

many thanks to nige and hadyn for helping me swap the diff from nicks donor car to my front axle today.
all works beautifully and leak / rattle/ growl free.

got a couple of questions....rants.... though.


the diff pinion bearing has loads of slack in it, causing the noise etc. But looking at the ring and pinion, it is spotless - no gouges or marks at all. Supose having only driven it for a few miles once it went nasty helped.
Is it possible to just replace that bearing, cos then i'd have a nice 24 spline spare diff?
secondly, why the hell do landrover insist on mixing imperial and metric bolts throughout the entire vehicle????
:evil:
metric 1995 defender, with a metric 24 spline axle, all the nuts and bolts metric - EXCEPT those holding the diff on. They were a 'baggy' 14mm but a perfect 1/2".....same year donor disco, 14mm bolts. hadyns 20 year old TD 10 spline axle, 14mm bolts!
same goes for the props, imperial. And why do landrover have to use a UJ thats (just) too small to fit a standard 1/4" driver on the bolts? Or put the gearbox crossmember right under the trannybox UJ so you have to have triple jointed wrists? Or make the bolts out of cheese so they strip their threads if you dont give them a cuddle and kiss first? Or put the filler hole in the swivels right over the CV joints?
Do you reckon they have meetings after designing a part and work out how to piss off the home mechanic later on? "hmmm, thats too easy to access. We could move it 5" for no reason at all, but it would mean ripping all the skin off your knuckles if you ever need to remove it on your drive!" - "yeah, great plan, lets change the design now"
Bet you dont get these issues with a bloody Toyota! :oops:
Bugger!

Another bloody dent...

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davew
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Postby davew » Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:43 pm

lol, having a bad day Nick ? :)

Diff nuts are normally 9/16 not 1/2

If they made the UJs bigger so you could easily get a socket on the prop bolts/nuts then there would be no need for the Difflock propshaft tool ! I have two of them, one for 1/2 inch windy gun and one for 3/8 windy gun or ratchet. I can strongly recommend getting one as they can also be used for removing the diff nuts :)

Normally the reason they persist with imperial (my unfounded hunch) is that fine metric bolts are expensive and difficult to get hold of whereas UNF bolts are much easier to get. Whenever there is a fine thread involved LR seemed to stick with UNF for a long time after the rest of teh vehicle went metric.

If it's just the bearing that's gone then, yes, they can be replaced (best to do both) and normally the shims that are currently in the diff will be correct for the new bearings too as the bearings are made to far higher tolerances than the diff !

As for car designers considering how people will work on their creations ? It'll never happen. It's an industry rule that mechanics the world over, no matter what make of vehicle, can curse and swear at the "cowboy that decided to put that there". If it's any consolation, the recommended way to replace the turbo on a Discovery 3 is to start by lifting the body off the chassis :)

TwoSheds
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Postby TwoSheds » Sun Mar 15, 2009 2:07 am

davew wrote:lol, having a bad day Nick ? :)
Normally the reason they persist with imperial (my unfounded hunch) is that fine metric bolts are expensive and difficult to get hold of whereas UNF bolts are much easier to get.

And the UNC bolts on the engine? :D

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tecnick
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Postby tecnick » Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:33 am

Well done Nick, hope the day went as well as possible and Claire brought lots of tea. If you and Hadyn fancy a return fixture, I may have some time second week of easter and would really like some help. Speak soon.

Cheers Nick
If it ain't broke, I'd be bloody suprised.

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davew
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Postby davew » Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:51 am

TwoSheds wrote:
davew wrote:lol, having a bad day Nick ? :)
Normally the reason they persist with imperial (my unfounded hunch) is that fine metric bolts are expensive and difficult to get hold of whereas UNF bolts are much easier to get.

And the UNC bolts on the engine? :D


In the V8 case I'd put it down to the age of the engine design, Rover made themselves enough problems by messing around with the original design without spending a fortune re-tooling for metric bolts and risking further problems as a result.

nicks90
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Postby nicks90 » Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:53 am

no - didnt have a bad day, went very well and smoothly in fact!

just annoys me that one part on a later motor can have imperial nuts and bolts, yet on an older vehicle the same parts are metric!
Just seems there is no consistency. Had the same when i took off the front shock turrets a few years ago. The little ring with 4 bolts that holds the turret on, 2 bolts were little 8-10mm jobbies, the other 2 on the same turret ring were imperial?!?!?!?!?!
:?:
not that it matters cos they all snapped off anyway.......


Looking forward to ripping your engine out nick, should be a fun day!
Bugger!

Another bloody dent...


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