rims, spacers and all things MSA
rims, spacers and all things MSA
now i'm not wanting to create a stir, or rub noses etc -
but i think we could all do with some clarification on MSA rules regarding things we stick on the ends of our axles.
recently there was a bit of bother about wheel spacers - so what is the msa rules on if they are allowed and how thick they can be?
Wheels, are there any rulings on wheel types? Reason i ask is i'm thinking of getting some disco steelies reversed for a big offset. Is this allowed?
One other thing - is it true mach 5 alloys arent road legal? if so, can members compete on them?
Tyres, are we going to go as far as checking load and speed ratings to make sure they are theoretically legal for the motor they are fitted too?
now i know we dont want to get bogged down by rules and regulations - its a familly fun non competitive club - but i think some clarification would be good.
What do other members think? should we allow a certain "leniency" and bending of rules, or should we be rigid and lay down the law? Can we be flexible - or is it insurance that restricts us?
so many questions........please add more questions as you think of them and lets have a discussion about it all.
but i think we could all do with some clarification on MSA rules regarding things we stick on the ends of our axles.
recently there was a bit of bother about wheel spacers - so what is the msa rules on if they are allowed and how thick they can be?
Wheels, are there any rulings on wheel types? Reason i ask is i'm thinking of getting some disco steelies reversed for a big offset. Is this allowed?
One other thing - is it true mach 5 alloys arent road legal? if so, can members compete on them?
Tyres, are we going to go as far as checking load and speed ratings to make sure they are theoretically legal for the motor they are fitted too?
now i know we dont want to get bogged down by rules and regulations - its a familly fun non competitive club - but i think some clarification would be good.
What do other members think? should we allow a certain "leniency" and bending of rules, or should we be rigid and lay down the law? Can we be flexible - or is it insurance that restricts us?
so many questions........please add more questions as you think of them and lets have a discussion about it all.
Bugger!
Another bloody dent...
Another bloody dent...
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davew
- Chairman
- Posts: 2242
- Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:54 pm
- Location: Knaresborough
- Full Name: Dave White
We are obliged to run our events to MSA regulations in order to take advantage of the insurance and liability cover etc....
The MSA have a set of rules that cover all aspects of off road events as well as covering nearly all other forms of 4 wheeled motorsport in the UK. Some rules we can overrule with our SRs (supplementary regulations) and some we can't.
The wheel spacer regulation is one that we can't negate in our SRs and reads like this....
E12.8.2 Not to be fitted with any wheel spacer exceeding 2.5cm in thickness or of less than hub diameter. Multiple or laminated spacers and extended studs are prohibited.
A while ago we asked for this to be double checked after Tom's Ibex had wheel spacers fitted and the MSA clarified the rule. Tom has not been able to trial with the spacers fitted. This is a specific regulation that we've already "banned" one vehicle for, it wouldn't be fair IMV to stop one vehicle competing that breaks 1 part of the regulation and then let another compete that breaks 2 and possibly 3 parts of the same regulation. (Alec's spacers were at least 30mm wide, used extended studs and could well have been smaller than the hub.
We try to be as leniant as we can be but, where there is no "grey area" to abuse, as in Alec's and Tom's cases, we can't really turn around and let a vehicle compete when we have been told that it doesn't comply with the regs.
The blue book is available to download from the MSA web site as a pdf and I've been tempted to upload the important sections (for us) to the web site although there are copyright issues with that. There are 3 hard copies of the book that we are supplied with each year, I have one, Matthew has one and Wayne has one.
The MSA have a set of rules that cover all aspects of off road events as well as covering nearly all other forms of 4 wheeled motorsport in the UK. Some rules we can overrule with our SRs (supplementary regulations) and some we can't.
The wheel spacer regulation is one that we can't negate in our SRs and reads like this....
E12.8.2 Not to be fitted with any wheel spacer exceeding 2.5cm in thickness or of less than hub diameter. Multiple or laminated spacers and extended studs are prohibited.
A while ago we asked for this to be double checked after Tom's Ibex had wheel spacers fitted and the MSA clarified the rule. Tom has not been able to trial with the spacers fitted. This is a specific regulation that we've already "banned" one vehicle for, it wouldn't be fair IMV to stop one vehicle competing that breaks 1 part of the regulation and then let another compete that breaks 2 and possibly 3 parts of the same regulation. (Alec's spacers were at least 30mm wide, used extended studs and could well have been smaller than the hub.
We try to be as leniant as we can be but, where there is no "grey area" to abuse, as in Alec's and Tom's cases, we can't really turn around and let a vehicle compete when we have been told that it doesn't comply with the regs.
The blue book is available to download from the MSA web site as a pdf and I've been tempted to upload the important sections (for us) to the web site although there are copyright issues with that. There are 3 hard copies of the book that we are supplied with each year, I have one, Matthew has one and Wayne has one.
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davew
- Chairman
- Posts: 2242
- Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:54 pm
- Location: Knaresborough
- Full Name: Dave White
On more general terms, the "road legal" requirement is one that we as a club choose to use as a baseline and has nothing to do with the MSA. For that reason we can be as leniant (or not) as we choose to be.
I'd rather not get into minute details about the legality or otherwise of certain tyre/wheel combinations !
I'd rather not get into minute details about the legality or otherwise of certain tyre/wheel combinations !
Dave, how do ALRC regs differ from MSA regs?
I was told that under ALRC regulations bumpers are supposed to have a vertical front face i.e. that would effectively outlaw tubular bumpers
Is there a similar reg under MSA?
Also apparently under ALRC regs the front bumpers have to be attached as per original so bumpers which sit on top of the front chasis legs are not allowable. Again is their a similar reg under MSA?
Personally I would prefer to keep the rules as simple as possible whilst taking safety as a over riding factor.
Regards
Brendan
I was told that under ALRC regulations bumpers are supposed to have a vertical front face i.e. that would effectively outlaw tubular bumpers
Is there a similar reg under MSA?
Also apparently under ALRC regs the front bumpers have to be attached as per original so bumpers which sit on top of the front chasis legs are not allowable. Again is their a similar reg under MSA?
Personally I would prefer to keep the rules as simple as possible whilst taking safety as a over riding factor.
Regards
Brendan
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davew
- Chairman
- Posts: 2242
- Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:54 pm
- Location: Knaresborough
- Full Name: Dave White
The MSA don't really go into those levels of detail in their regs. The MSA regs are designed to cover a huge range of vehicles and provide a base set of safety and organisational regs.
The ALRC regs have a tendency to focus on trivia, there are all sorts of weird and wonderful regulations they are supposed to run their events to. Bear in mind that the ALRC regs are simply supplemental regs added on to the MSA regs for the event, they are not two separate sets of regs.
The ALRC regs have a tendency to focus on trivia, there are all sorts of weird and wonderful regulations they are supposed to run their events to. Bear in mind that the ALRC regs are simply supplemental regs added on to the MSA regs for the event, they are not two separate sets of regs.
Just as a point of interest, I was pointed out something on another forum about tyre legalities which I didn't know (they were pulled over and cautioned).
If a vehicle ways less than 2.5t kerbside weight, you cannot have more than 8mm of tread. So 10, 12 and 20mm tread depth on certain MT's are not road legal until they have been part worn
If a vehicle ways less than 2.5t kerbside weight, you cannot have more than 8mm of tread. So 10, 12 and 20mm tread depth on certain MT's are not road legal until they have been part worn
"It seemed like a good idea at the time..."
Johnb wrote:Just as a point of interest, I was pointed out something on another forum about tyre legalities which I didn't know (they were pulled over and cautioned).
If a vehicle ways less than 2.5t kerbside weight, you cannot have more than 8mm of tread. So 10, 12 and 20mm tread depth on certain MT's are not road legal until they have been part worn
If anyone wants a patsy to 'take one for the club' and use up the first 12mm of Simex tread for them... I'm your man
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